How an Engineering Manager Learned to Influence - Doug Howard
Many of us get into management not realizing just how important influence is. In this interview, leadership coach, former engineering manager and sales engineer Doug Howard shares his journey on discovering the critical role of influence in leadership.
We talked about:
The shift between engineering IC work and engineering management
The importance of influence for leaders
The moment he realized he needed to sharpen his influence skills
How he learned to be effective in managing up
Can you introduce yourself for others who don't know you?
My name is Doug Howard. I'm a leadership coach and consultant for engineering and tech companies. I specialize in leadership training programs designed for logical-minded engineers versus big box type stuff that can apply to any company. Engineers face unique challenges and have a unique way of thinking, as do their teams.
In my previous experience, I worked 15 years in engineering—mostly civil, structural, and software. What I found is that lack of leadership in these companies is what's really holding a lot of industries back. You're seeing it now—the best ideas aren't getting to market, there's heavy burnout, and people are leaving the industry. I saw this when I was working in manager and director roles, and it inspired me to move to consulting to help companies develop leaders.
(As an engineering manager) you need to learn new skills because it's a transition, not a progression. It requires a totally different way of thinking.
What kinds of folks do you normally coach?
I can work with leaders at every level but my core is engineering managers with a few years of experience through engineering leaders at the director level.
(As an engineering manager) you need to learn new skills because it's a transition, not a progression. It requires a totally different way of thinking.
The Challenge of Engineering Management
That's really important work because many engineering managers don't get training. They don't recognize it's a whole different job.
This is true for a lot of engineers, including me. If you get promoted to a leadership role as an engineer, it's usually because you were a top-performing engineer. There's this assumption at companies: "Well, they're the top-performing engineer on the team, so that's the person who should go into this leadership opening."
But as you said, it's a completely different set of skills. Just because you're a top-performing engineer doesn't mean you'll automatically be a good leader—though it doesn't mean you can't be. (As an engineering manager) you need to learn new skills because it's a transition, not a progression. It requires a totally different way of thinking. It's less doing and more getting other people to do. That's tough for engineers to make on their own.
I also think the transition from engineering manager to director is really tough. What they struggle with is how to take responsibility without getting in the weeds and doing it themselves.
Yes, and there's this moving target of trust. If I'm a director, what level of things can I trust the manager with? My neck is on the line ultimately, but if I don't trust them, then it's not sustainable. I'm going to be doing three managers' jobs, which is unrealistic. This is where a lot of people burn out, and they end up burning out the people below them too because they feel like they're not contributing. I call this the bad leadership cycle.
It irritates the rest of the team and creates terrible team morale because they're basically micromanaging.
Exactly. And this is where people at the ground level feel like, "Why are we doing things that make no sense?" It feels like different planets if you're at the ground level getting top-down direction from someone disconnected from what's happening.
Discovering the Need for Influence Skills
Tell me more about how you got into leadership.
I used to think my story was unique, but I'm finding it's a common tale. I got my first job out of college at a very small company—more like a startup with about five people on our engineering team. It was very tribal knowledge; there was no formal documentation.
That worked fine in our small environment, but then e-commerce started growing and our product was perfectly aligned for that market. Our business opportunity blew up overnight. For perspective, my first year we were selling maybe $2-3 million of product. By the time I left, we were selling $150 million a year.
We were this small company that didn't understand how to play with the big boys. We didn't have the formalities, systems, tools, or tech in place. There was no real management — everyone just did their job. But now we had projects with sale prices larger than our yearly revenue from the year before.
This required more order and strategic thinking, but no one was really doing it. I felt compelled to step up. It wasn't a strategic move—I just thought, "Someone's got to bring some order to this." I started solving problems piece by piece, and then people started coming to me for help. Suddenly I was this de facto leader with people asking, "Doug, what should we do?"
I realized that logic doesn't always prevail. Logic isn't always the way to get things done or solve problems.
That's interesting—our paths are similar. I think what we both did was step into leadership voids. I was a project manager at an interactive agency during Web 1.0, building shopping carts when they were million-dollar problems to solve. We were a scrappy upstart with not many formal tools, so I started building them. Then I became a senior program manager and eventually head of the department. As soon as I became a manager, I had to do my first layoff. That was…interesting.
That's a good christening. That's a great christening into leadership. Oh man, that must have been terrible. How did you handle that without any experience in that?
It was hard. My background is social psychology, sociology, org development and leadership. So I'd studied all those things, but it really helped me put into practice the ideas I’d been thinking about. I thought a lot about how to think about who to let go. I thought about their functional skills in project management but also how they interacted with others. It was an aha moment to realize that the people part matters just as much as the technical skills. I was young in my career so I was grateful for that learning.
Yeah, I think in many cases it matters more than the technical skills. If you can't communicate your ideas in a way that resonates to the other person, or if you can't get them to feel like you actually care about what you're talking about with them, it doesn't matter what you're saying.
Right and it's connected to the topic we're going to talk about today, which is influence. Some people think influence is a dirty word but it’s not. It’s an essential skill for leadership. I think of it as being able to get people on board. Can you share a little bit of a context about how you discovered your own need to work on influence skills?
Working with engineers and going through engineering school, most discussions were just based on logic. "Hey team, should we do this thing? Yes, this makes sense because of X, Y, and Z. Let's proceed." There wasn't any salesmanship—the best idea would just win when working collaboratively.
I never really thought about influence until I became that de facto manager. Our company grew from about 15 to 50 people over a year or two. Suddenly, there were new dynamics, new personalities, people from corporate backgrounds, people from startups—a diverse mix I wasn't used to.
I had to present updates upward to different types of people. I had to present ideas, proposals, requests for budget increases and new software. And I was always getting shut down. These ideas seemed like common sense to me: "Hey, you want us to increase capacity by X percent? Well, I need these new positions. Black and white. Say yes."
I would give very matter-of-fact proposals. Or we'd get some top-down direction that made no sense, and I would refute it with binary thinking: "This won't work because of this. Let's move on." I was always getting shut down. Here I was, a 25-year-old team lead presenting ideas to directors and executives, and I couldn't figure out why they weren't listening. I was passionate about getting things right, servicing our customers well, and being on time. To me, I was fighting on behalf of what's right—the customer, our product, the rules—and I couldn't understand why they didn't see it my way.
I realized that logic doesn't always prevail. Logic isn't always the way to get things done or solve problems.
The Breaking Point
It came to a head one day when my boss wanted to restructure the department into multiple teams. I was going to become the manager for one of three teams—a promotion for me. He presented this as a big reward: "You're going to lead the special products team."
My first thought was, "Those other people aren't qualified to lead those teams. That's going to be a disaster." I could immediately see all the problems with this plan. So instead of saying, "Thanks for the promotion," I immediately dissected why his idea wouldn't work. In my mind, I was saving the company from disaster. And guess how he took it? As a slap in the face. His response was, "Doug, I think you're being really ungrateful here. I'm giving you a promotion, and this is how you're thanking me?"
I still pushed back. I didn't read between the lines. After a couple rounds of this, with me being aggressive, he basically said, "If you don't accept this plan, then there's no position for you here." Essentially, "Buy in or get out." That really jolted me. I'd never failed a course in my life, never been kicked out of a team or group, never been "the difficult person." It was eye-opening: I'm trying to do the right thing—why am I the bad guy? I realized that logic doesn't always prevail. Logic isn't always the way to get things done or solve problems.
The Path to Repair and Influence
How did you begin to repair that relationship with him? That's a form of influence, right? Repairing after we've done something not great, which happens to all of us.
It took me about a year. First, I agreed to go along with his decision to restructure. I thought, "He needs to see that this won't work. He didn't hear me saying it, so he needs to see it." I focused on my team and stayed in my lane. I also reflected on why he took my response so negatively. It hit me: he feels like I don't appreciate him. Here he was giving me an opportunity at a young age, and I was essentially saying, "Your ideas suck." Right or wrong, that's how he felt, and it colored everything else he heard from me.
I realized there's this level of feeling that creates a perception lens for other people. I could say the exact same message, but if they don't like me or if I've upset them, they're going to hear it differently. I had to repair the relationship by making him feel appreciated. When he would bring up an idea, I'd start with, "That's great," and share what I appreciated before offering any criticism. I gave much less criticism for a while, even when I had concerns, and focused on appreciation: "I really appreciate you giving me this opportunity. I appreciate you sharing that insight with me."
A year later, he came back and told me, "You're right. This structure didn't work." The department ended up converging into one team, and I became the manager. It was a patient approach, but I had to let him see it and come to his own realization.
Lessons on Effective Influence
If you could go back to 25-year-old Doug in that moment when you knew it wouldn't work but had to influence the director, what would you do differently?
I would have coached upward instead of just reacting. I would have first shown appreciation: "Wow, I'm really thankful for this opportunity. I'm flattered you're considering me for it. Then I would have asked questions: "How are we going to handle these types of projects? Do you feel like this team will have all the people in place for this type of work? How will we handle production scheduling?" I would have asked these questions in a curious, exploring way—not insulting—to help draw out whether he saw any potential problems.
The most effective leaders realize that leadership and influence isn't a position—it's knowing how to influence people's decisions and their way of thinking. You can do that from anywhere in the company.
That's a great approach. Those situations are tricky because sometimes the people on the ground like you do have more information, but sometimes the leaders actually have information that you don't know about.
Exactly. I also realized I had my own biases. My manager wasn't an engineer—he was actually from marketing. I had this subconscious attitude of "You don't know what you're talking about; you're not an engineer," and it was probably showing on my face. So I had to recognize that I wasn't taking his ideas as seriously as I should have.
The most effective leaders realize that leadership and influence isn't a position—it's knowing how to influence people's decisions and their way of thinking. You can do that from anywhere in the company.
I believe influence is all about relationship building. You can't truly influence for good or for long-term results without it. Otherwise, it's manipulation or force or coercion.
Absolutely. The most effective leaders realize that leadership and influence isn't a position—it's knowing how to influence people's decisions and their way of thinking. You can do that from anywhere in the company. You don't need a title or experience. Your position might require more work on the relationship-building end if you don't have authority or expertise, but anyone can do this. As you said, investing in relationship building is key, because that creates your reputation with others so they'll actually listen.
The Two-Way Street of Influence
Underneath all this is that influence is a two-way street. It's not just one-directional—it's an exchange of information and ideas.
Yes, it's getting that first yes. I call it finding the "minimum viable yes." Don't go for the big ask if you're trying to influence someone. Start with the smallest thing related to what you're asking for. For example, if you're asking to switch from 2D to 3D software, start by asking if you can do a free trial—low commitment. Then maybe get approval to spend 10 hours testing it and putting together a proposal, rather than saying, "Let's just go all in because I know this will work." If you can't get them to say yes to the little thing, there's no way you'll get them to say yes to the big thing.
Improving Influence Skills
What have you learned overall about influence and how have you improved your influence skills?
For me as an engineer, a lot of traditional leadership advice didn't resonate. Being told to "just be outgoing" or "just be nice" didn't help—I didn't want to have small talk or waste time. What really helped was diving into human psychology—learning about different thinking styles, the difference between introversion and extraversion, how some people are more intuitive and others more sensory. I learned about myself first, so I could see my biases: "I tend to be rigid in my thinking. I'm not naturally open to new ideas."
Then I learned to recognize patterns in how other people think and talk. What gets them excited? This person isn't motivated by salary; they want autonomy. So if I want them to step up, I should give them a daunting task. Another person is extrinsically motivated—it doesn't matter what you say; you need to offer a bonus or overtime pay.
A great starting point is Robert Cialdini's book "The Six Laws of Influence." He talks about the science and psychology behind how people are influenced. It's not manipulation—it's understanding how to efficiently get people on board, finding the most effective way to get people on the same path as you.